European Union Dubs Inspection Report and Handling on Drug Residue “Unreliable”
Photo by Julie Caramante
WESTMINSTER, MD (Animal’s Angels) - On U.S. soil or Canadian, the issue of drug residues in U.S. horses is hugely concerning to the EU, as evidenced in their most recent inspection report.
The report, released on October 26, 2011, uses phrases like, “no official guarantee”, “could not be considered reliable”, “inadequate”, “no supporting evidence”, “standards are not industry practice”, and focuses on concerns about traceability and certification.
Bluntly labeled “Not satisfactory” were the “identification and movement of horses”, “controls of veterinary drugs”, and “residue controls and certification.” In other words, without focusing on humane slaughter issues, EU inspectors found handling is in many ways deficient.
Calling kill buyers’ sworn statements ‘affidavits,’ the report admits, “horses from the US were accompanied by the signed Affidavit (EID) of the last owner, covering the medical treatment during the last six months, which in many cases was a horse dealer.Nevertheless, no official guarantee was received by the CFIA from US authorities that this guarantee was verified and could be considered as reliable.”
Inspectors note that, “No statement in the US Health Certificate is required or provided as to the former use of the horses, their treatment with veterinary drugs, in particular with regard to certain substances having a hormonal or thyreostatic action or to beta-agonists.”
| US truck unloading at Richelieu plant |
Canadian authorities informed the Commission Services over 18 months ago that they were having “continuing discussions with US authorities” in regards to official controls on the treatment history of horses to be exported to Canada for slaughter. No further action taken by CFIA was noted. Over 70% of horses go ing directly to slaughter at EU regulated plants
in Canada were imported from the US.
“Fit for travel?” The FVO audit team was informed that if animals unfit for travel are found the consignment would not be allowed enter Canada. A facility is available for individual examination. But audit officials found that “No animals had been detained for a closer examination since the introduction of the control procedure.”
This is likely a factor in last week’s announcement regarding specific times and locations of border entry points with inspection effective January 1, 2012.
But it further raises the question of what happens to animals considered unfit for travel and rejected at the border?
Cover up? Indications of possible covering up tainted meat where Inspectors note, “in one horse slaughterhouse the tongues were not identified and all the heads were condemned immediately after the post-mortem examination, which did not allow for a re-sampling of at least 50g sample from animals with a positive or inconclusive result.”
Additionally, “insufficient separation between EU eligible and non-eligible carcasses on the slaughter line” was reported.
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Does anyone know why Wallis hasn’t posted this report to her supporters? I guess desecrating a horse carcass is more important than consumer food safety.
This is directed to the Animal Angels that chose to post this article_____ My question to this article is. Are you saying that all these statements are on every report. Such as no official guarantee, inadequate and not satisfactory. Are these on each and every report that is done? I am willing to bet that here in America the same goes at our beef and pork plants. If our meat inspections were better and more strict in the large beef plants we would not have all of the O157:H7 recalls with sicknesses and deaths.
Another question even with a paperwork problem that I am sure will be corrected very shortly. Just where is the proof that there are any drugs including BUTE that is getting rejected by the EU or any other country after the horses are processed. Do you really believe that the large processing plants are going to risk getting a large fine or shut down for slaughtering and trying to ship meat that has harmful drugs.
Is not this whole issue about FOOD SAFETY. There are a very few horse dealers that do not comply with the rules. Sure just like everything else in this country there are some that would rather break the law than follow it. This does not mean every horse dealer is a law breaker or outlaw like some try to paint. Yes there is bad apples, not everyone. Just like what you are trying to imply here that they are shutting down the Canadian border. Do you not think that by doing this with limited border crossings will stop the outlaws? Look at Mexico and drugs. My point is that we can find fault at anything that happens.
Thanks for the space Joe
The equine business has some very bad people in it; the HCHS trade is rife with very bad people selling unregulated, nonfood animals for human consumption….someplace else.
And AA didn’t choose to post here; they sent out a press release and the editor of Horseback chose to feature it. Horseback does this for many with opposing views on many issues related to equines.
Joe ~ The report refers you to a list of banned substances. That’s the way reports like this work. You can download the original and read it yourself. Then you can direct your questions to the European Commission.
Suzanne Moore
Why do you always keep telling me that I need to direct my questions to the EU ??
I have never questioned what is on the CFIA, EU illegal drugs that they are testing for. All of those have to be checked for to have a safe food product!
It is only you and a few others that say I support selling meat with drugs, that is false and assanine for assuming that.
My point has always been that you keep saying that the meat is full of BUTE when the testing by both the CFIA and EU shows that it is not.
I am sure that you know what the head of the CFIA (RED MEAT) said on tape from a live show at the Summit of the HORSE in Vegas, Claude Boussinant (CFIA) said that they had not found any meat that had to be tanked because of drugs, including Bute. Only the EU requires a 180 day with holding time Claude went on to say. He also mentioned that other countries such as Russia, by the way buys more meat than the EU countries combined. Claude said they just approved the inspections of meat for theses other countries, they are the same as EU but do not require the 180 day documentation. He made a point of saying that this in no way made the meat unsafe to eat. Remember Canada plants have never shown to have shipped condemended meat by the EU.
With this being said, why do you and others such as Animal Angels and EWA keep saying all American horses are full of bute. Claude also said that most of the horses slaughtered in Canada were from the United States.
You folks only want people to not eat HORSE MEAT. I sure hope the Jews and Muslins do not try to stop us from eating bacon, ham, pork chops and other pork products just because they do not eat pork. That makes as much common sense as what you want..
I would recommond to you that you try to use facts and not emotions and out right false statments, like they are fact.
Have a nice day Joe
It already happened in Mexico, Joe. Here is the link to the entire EU report. They found banned substances in horses that had affidavits stating the horses were drug free. http://www.box.net/shared/bgsda62zd15xh4r8bs27
Suzanne Moore
Thank goodness there has been no tainted HORSE MEAT get through the CFIA Regulatory Service thats in every Canadian Plant…Thats what they are there for… to ensure that the miniscule amounts of horse carcasses that “may have residue” are tanked at the plant.
The problem with you Suzanne is that you are a habitual liar and would “like” your lies to become truth so as to further your personal goal of ending horse slaughter … nothing more than that.
ITS ALL ABOUT YOU SUZANNE MOORE
Thank you for the space and have a nice day Joe
I repeat, Ms. Moore is NOT a liar.
Editor
Pretty sneaky, have the same article posted on page one and two with different posts!! Is this article that big it will need two seperate sites to post the same comments.
Talk about wasting SPACE!!
Not sneaky at all. The article is tremendously important to the current debate on slaughter and the upcoming vote in Congress on federal meat inspectors at horse slaughter plants being considered by conferees on the latest ag appropriations bill.. We create Horseback Online each evening with a program called Word Press. We have yet to determine how to move a story previously posted to the lead article position without posting it again, simple as that. I’m certain you will agree that this article describes a situation that will have an enormous impact on the cause you espouse. If the Europeans don’t trust the American export system the market for horsemeat products will dry up.
And one more thing Joe, we have covered this issue for a very long time. Your benign description of killer buyers for the slaughter market as a group on the level with Boy Scouts is laughable at best, and flat out deception at worst. These bottom feeders consistently use deception to buy horses from families that were never intended for slaughter, contribute to the horse theft market, and as recently was shown in the death pens of Presidio, Texas, bring near dead horses over thousands of miles in the hope they will pass inspection and be turned into often bute laden meat for the European market.
No Joe, this story is very, very, important.
The Editor
Editor
Thank you for your explanation of two of the same articles, you mean that you will maybe get over 140 comments like some other good articles that had a lot of good posts showing the pro slaughter had documented facts?
The issue of horse dealers. Are you saying that all horse dealers are crooks and liars? I will agree that there are a few, but by no means the majority like you say. I think by only having a few border crossings will help stop the crooked ones from getting horses across the border. Same goes for people crossing from Mexico, illegal people and drugs. There are problems where ever you look. Just look when I pointed out with the USDA/FSIS failed HASSP plan that the former undersecretary of FSIS Dr. Richard Raymond’s has said. Remember the fact that he also said that 9 I am proud to say that a very close Examination of the Food Borne Out Break Data Base shows not one single incident of an illness from consuming HORSE MEAT. That was made and posted on Oct. 28 2011 at 7:48:07 PM on
http://www.feedstuffsfoodlink.com For those who have not read it make sure on the home page top left you click on OUR BLOG
Thank you for the space Joe
You asked, we’ll answer. We specifically referred to killer buyers as bottom feeders, not bona fide horse dealers. We stand by our assessment.
Joe ~ You have never answered my previous questions, so I will ask again – Have you been there? Have you actually seen auctions and kill buyers? Have you seen the transported horses? Have you been to a horse slaughter plant UNANNOUNCED? Have you known people whose horses were stolen?
I await your answers.
Suzanne Moore (aka/ doom and gloom)
You are starting to get reduntant. I can answer yes to being to auctions and know buyers. The ones I know treat all the horses they buy with great care, both the ones they resell as the ones they send to slaughter. They have the nicest trailers that are rubber lined on the floors,even up on the walls, nothing broke or needing repair that would ever hurt a horse. The places that they take them to have the best feed and plenty of clean water. As far as going to a plant unannounced, what would the point be. The Plants that I know and talk to have inspectors from both the EU and CFIA with offices right in their plants. I know nothing about the ma and pa plants in Mexico other than what you show in videos, and I question that maybe the ones that took the video maybe were the ones that only did it for the fact they got paid to show the gruesome slaughter and abuse and paid to take pictures. If you will remember the video of the plant in Mexico that Beltex owns. Tim Cordes USDA/APHIS and American vets released a good video showing the clean, well feed healthy horses with plenty of green hay and lots of clean water. I am talking about the plant in Mexico. I forget that would not interest you. You only want to paint the picture that all plants and kill buyers are outlaws like the Editor is saying. I think it is very interesting how a magazine will side in with the anti slaughter and believe all the crap you show!!
I know of no one that has had a horse stolen. But I do know a lot of people that have had their cars stolen, tv’s, jewelry and other valuables. I suppose you are telling me that the killer buyers are part of all of the stealing. Talk about a nut case!! You get first prize.
My point in the last answer is that when anything, horses have a value the crooks will steal anything that has a value. Go to the police department in a city and get stolen property reports. Yes horses get stolen, but closing the plants in America and keeping them closed will not help. The reason that since the stolen horses right now is down as they have no value. By the time they steal, transport and resell it would not be worth the risk. They can go to the sore and shop lift and make more money. I know most of you anti’s will disagree because itgoes against the message you are trying to send to Washington.
The GAO is the best thing there is for facts along with the truth at sales barns, no value. Horses turned loose, no value. Horse stolen, why!! no value. How silly can you get.
Now I would like to ask you a couple of questions,(1) do you really believe that most horse dealers and buyers are crooks. I am including the slaughter buyers included.(2) Now if you and your kind get transportation of a horse to slaughter passed. Just what do have in place to take care of the 100,000 plus more horses that will also be running loose. Do you send money to any large rescues, or take these horses in yourself. If you do please post the list here and on http://www.amillionhorses.com websites and I am sure you will have a lot of them given to you for free. The horse buyers tell me that they get calls to take their horses for free. Sales barns have to turn down small and thin horses as no one wants them now. When the plants were open in America they could buy and feed and resell. The whole point is that since your people are responsible for closing and trying to keep all slaughter are, responsible for the mess. No value, are you happy now!!
Thanks for the space
Have a nice day JOE
Joe,
You must be new to this subject since it has been mentioned many times that bute can only be found by testing the kidney of the horse so the horse must be dead to find it. That is a very expensive and time consuming test. Wallis keeps saying that a simple blood test will find it but of course that is another one of her deceptive lies. Bute collects in the kidney and injured muscle tissue and can be released back into the blood stream at any time. Perhaps in the time of extreme stress, i.e. slaughter.
I am also wondering if you have horses since even wormer has the label “NOT FOR FOOD ANIMALS” so there are other drugs or medicines that will disqualify a horse from going to slaughter but bute is by far the one drug that stands out and gets more usage every day as many who own horses think it is like a miracle drug.
Bute is the most thoroughly studied because at one time it was licensed for people. Until very bad side effects started showing up – including aplastic anemia and death. The problem is that the effects are extremely idiosyncratic, affecting one person one way, another in a different way. No predictability at all. Plus, some are SO sensitive to it – especially children – that even very small amounts can cause devastating side effects of the serum-sickness type.
[Federal Register: February 28, 2003 (Volume 68, Number 40)]
[Rules and Regulations]
[Page 9528-9530]
From the Federal Register Online via GPO Access [wais.access.gpo.gov]
[DOCID:fr28fe03-14]
=======================================================================
———————————————————————–
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES
Food and Drug Administration
21 CFR Part 530
[Docket No. 03N-0024]
New Animal Drugs; Phenylbutazone; Extralabel Animal Drug Use;
Order of Prohibition
AGENCY: Food and Drug Administration, HHS.
ACTION: Final rule.
http://www.box.net/shared/q9j0qrrf2lphc8vddo1q
To bolster Suzanne’s story I’ll bring it home with a true illustration. During an interview I had with former NFL great Dan Pastorini two years ago, I asked him how he played so well during the “Luv Ya Blue” days wearing a flak jacket while nursing the broken broken ribs that plagued him throughout his career. Without blinking, the former Houston Oiler quarterback answered, “bute.”
Yes, it was used on humans, including the Sunday heroes of the National Football League.
The Editor
Lynn LL
I question your knowledge. Are you implying that you and Dr. Marini know more than the CFIA and EU?
Only the EU is demanding a 6 month withholding on horses. Many tests have been made and I have shown clicks here with the reports. You would have to eat 100 lbs of horsemeat to get the PBZ’s that will possibly harm you. What does common sence tell you, is that possible?
You surely are aware that the countries outside of the EU do not require the 180 days. With the testing that the CFIA does is very strict, shows no harmful drugs in the meat that people eat. The CFIA has approved this and they are doing it. The horses that are processed for other countries have to be kept separate and marked as such and kept in a cooler. All of this was explained by Dr. Claude Boussinant at the summit of the horse in Las Vegas. I recomond to you and others is do a little better research on what you try to make others believe what you say is the truth.
It would not surprise me that You and Dr. Marini also try to tell a BRAIN Surgeon how to do his operation. If you can not find the articles I will be glad to post. I do not want to get reduntant. Ask the editor he will send them to you as he has printed them on this site several articles.
You have a nice day and do some more studying.
Thanks again for the space Editor JOE
Joe, it is you that needs to do a little studying. First, the 180 quarantine was special compensation given to the plants that slaughter US horses. ALL other countries importing to the EU have to follow the guidelines, i.e. the horse must have a passport or he/she cannot be sent to slaughter. Period. The US will have to comply with this, as well, by 2013.
I would suggest you research the CHDC investigation into the two largest plants in Canada that were AUTHENTICATED by the Canadian government. Even Temple Grandin condemned them. There were NO inspectors on the kill floor for years. The same type of investigation took place a few years prior so after all the violations were found at that time, they did nothing. There are decades of investigations proving the inspectors are worthless so to say you have CFIA inspectors is meaningless. For the US plants, don’t take our word, just pull the GAO report to see how bad it was. How much more evidence do you need? There are videos, reports, investigations, studies, firsthand accounts from workers and on and on. Every piece of documentation proves the same thing – cruelty, abuse and violations from the moment the horse enters the slaughter pipeline.
The study by Dr. Marini, Dr. Blondeau (France) and Dr. Dodman was to prove that US horses receiving bute were slipping through the system into the food chain. The study did exactly that. The paper was peer reviewed and published in a scientific journal. There is no disputing the findings as racing vet records were used to determine the horses had received bute.
The test performed at the plants does not detect bute, so of course, no bute residues are found. To detect bute residues, the kidneys must assayed. You can check with the EU, FDA and CFIA to verify this. I suspect they don’t perform the test because it is expensive and since the substance is banned, the animals should not have been sent to slaughter in the first place. It took them long enough to realize our slaughter thugs aren’t following regulations. Never have, never will.
The “clicks” you provided are worthless because NO studies have been done to determine the length of time it would take for the carcinogens to build up before the person develops cancer. Would you like to volunteer for the study? Would you agree to be fed meat that contains carcinogens to see how many years it takes for you to develop cancer? That is the only way you could trace cancer back to horse meat. You’d need two study groups, one that eats horse meat and the other that doesn’t and run it for many years to compare results and rates of developing cancer.
Thank you for pointing out why the pro slaughter folks never get anything straight – you want everyone to tell you everything. Is that why Sue’s few followers repeat her misinformation so blindly?
Read the reports. As an example, the report from Mexico stated they found banned substances in US horses and every horse tested had an affidavit stating the horses were drug free. Even in the US, you can take a look at the recent Presidio incident where all the coggins reports were falsified. If you did the slightest bit of research you would know that the standard tests they perform do not detect bute residues (a very expensive test) and that is most likely because an animal that has received bute should never enter the food chain. That is, if food safety laws are followed. They have finally realized that the slaughter thugs don’t know how to tell the truth and will send anything to slaughter they can get their hands on. How much longer do you think the EU is going to put up with the lies? The EU doesn’t mess around with food safety – something you would have discovered if you read the Irish Vet paper I posted on the other comment thread. If our government would have stepped up, horse slaughter would have been shut down years ago.
Exactly how are you going to fix the paperwork, Joe? We have no tracking system and no way to know what medications the horse has received in his/her lifetime. How are you going to state a horse is drug free when there are no records from the horse’s birth? Horses can go through multiple owners not to mention the horses that are stolen. What about all the abandoned horses you guys keep whining about? You don’t even know who the owners are so how are you going to state they are drug free? Are you saying the pro folks have found another way to lie to make it look official? Have you found vets you can pay-off to falsify the new paperwork?
How about this, Joe – I think it’s something we can both agree on. Slaughter is for food production and not the place to send excess, “unwanted”, or unusable animals of any species. Only animals that have been raised as food animals from birth should enter the food chain. Isn’t that what food production and food safety are all about?
Keep it up, Joe. Soon nobody will want any meat from the US. If you care so little about consumers of US horse meat, what is going on with our traditional food sources? Is there the same callous disregard?
To Vicki’s post of 11/5/11 @ 2:21- Your passion on food safety/production is admirable but seriously flawed…all species of livestock are administered vaccines,wormers,and antibiotics at some time in their lifespan to promote good health and prevent death/sickness-commonly referred to as “animal husbandry” and used by responsible,informed livestock producers.To not use the aforementioned products would be economically disastrous.If it were not for “unusable animals” entering the food chain,your chicken nuggets,pizza sausage,and McDonalds burger would cost 10 times as much.As to the value/acceptance of food products carrying a “U.S.A.” label being endangered from comments from people like “joe”-isn’t that a bit of a stretch? Products of U.S. origin bring a premium all over the world.
Skip, bute is banned in all food producing animals. Banned. We aren’t talking about other species, we are talking about horses. Ivermectin, bute and Clenbutoral are banned in horses. A horse receiving any of those drugs during its lifetime, cannot be sent to slaughter. Either follow the rules or get out of the meat business. It is that simple. You have no right to jeopardize consumer’s health.
Are you publicly stating that the meat industry isn’t following food safety regulations?
Vicki raises a valid question that demands an answer. As meat eaters we absolutely must, without exception, trust our food producers. Please answer the question.
The Editor
To Vicki,The Editor,and Dr. Verret-I want to thank Dr. Verret for the kind words(scripted troll/idiot);always refreshing conversing w/Verret.In response to Vicki’s well-thought question accusing me of “publicly stating that the meat industry isn’t following food safety regulations”-where in my post do I allude to that statement? I referred to livestock producers using drugs to improve health/production of live animals,not circumvent food safety.Furthermore,I NEVER EVEN MENTIONED HORSES OR HORSEMEAT OR SLAUGHTER OF HORSES as you you do in your response to me.I won’t demand an answer as it would be a waste of valuable space/time.
Editor
I am responding to your comment posted Nov 6 2011 at 4:45 demanding an answer from another poster that is pro slaughter.If that is policy why is the same demand made of the anti slaughter? Is this the rule at this site? If so, would you please respond to Suzanne Moore and have her answer my 2 questions in a post on November 5 2011 at 7:26
What is good for the goose is good for the gander!!
Thanks for the invite to post anytime.. Joe
Skip, you answered your question to me. You said “I referred to livestock producers using drugs to improve health/production of live animals,not circumvent food safety.”
What drugs are they using and are they following food safety laws? Bute is a drug that improves health but it is banned in food animals.
And you are another scripted troll. I don’t care that proper handling of MEAT animals costs more…btw, aren’t inspectors, purveyors and producers are reguried to do so NOW.
You are talking front end for meat animals re meds….equines aren’t front end anything befor meat for humans…they are back end, scum market of meat for humans and the regulators and breeders, users and abusers use every trick in the book to get past equine covert meat production for humans.
As to COOL (you idiot)…how does one decide on meat from or purveyed in the US when the label reads…USA/CAN/MEX/NZ????????
And certain import countries of US meat still think we are liars, plus import restrictions to protect their own producers.
More slaughter of equines NOISE.
Skip ~ There are some products – NOT bute – that are banned in horses but not in food animals. Ivermectin is the only one I know about for sure. This is because the FDA doesn’t consider horses to be food animals and therefore doesn’t require that the manufacturers of horse products run the extensive and expensive tests that are required for products for food animals.
These tests have to be performed on each SPECIES – tests have been done for food animals, but not for HORSES. That’s why ivermectin can be used with cattle but not with horses. If you don’t like that, take it up with the FDA. Like I’ve told Joe at least a hundred times, WE don’t make the laws. And screaming and calling US liars does nothing except undermine YOUR credibility. You WILL have to take it up with the people who make the laws. Good grief!
As far as the other products you mention – vaccines, other wormers, and antibiotics – be careful. There ARE vaccines, wormers and antibiotics that horses can get because they are NOT food animals that are banned completely in food animals just like bute. But, as a responsible, informed whateveryouare, you surely know that.
BTW, the EU doesn’t accept our cattle because of the antibiotics that are used to promote growth. Those are banned in horses too.
Vicki
Apparently you did not watch the video at the Summit of the Horse in Vegas. Dr. Claude Boussinant in his speech and later in an interview, said the the CFIA just approved the inspections of meat for the countries out side the EU. This did not change the strict drug testing or way the meat was handled. It only meant that the horses did not have to be held 180 days. Thank goodness there has been no tainted horse meat get through the CFIA Regulatory Service that is in every Canadian Plant.. That is what they are there for.. to ensure that the miniscule amounts of horse carcasses that ” MAY HAVE RESIDUE” ARE TANKED AT THE PLANT.
Your second concern that I will hurt the export of American meat. My point is the truth that we do have a big problem with the large plants that I have provided links before. The foodsafety site, the John Munsell site and the interview with the past UnderSecretary Dr. Richard Raymond telling the problem with the failed HASSP plan that the FSIS is allowing the large plants to use. The plan allows the large plants to use 98% paperwork inspections and only 2% hands on. This is why all of the recalls and deaths caused by O157:H7 that kills people. The cause of O157:H7 is pure manure. It comes fron either the hide of the animal or intestions. Plan and simple manure.
I am about food safety for all livestock so people do not get sick or die. You again only single out HORSE MEAT, you have yet to prove your point that horse meat kills people with facts..
I believe that more of us, including you Vicki need to get more pressure on the USDA/FSIS to change the way large plants are allowed to process dirty meat and sell to the public or resell to small plants and then the little guy gets shut down. Just go to http://www.johnmunsell.com and read his 9 articles. If you truly are about food saftey, lets make it ALL LIVESTOCK…
Well Dr. Claude was talkin’ poop….not that it would make any difference to you. For every “Doctor” you find, I can find three that say YOUR WRONG and really are doctors with peer reviewed papers and experience!!!!!
Get more pressure on USDA/APHIS???????????? HAH-HAH-HAHHHHahhhh!!!!!
You crack me up with your lack of knowledge….let’s make it ALL LIVESTOCK!?!?!!! ROTFLOL!!!!
The only thing that isn’t funny is the ridiculous persistence. But it is a free country; knock yourself out.
Quick…what’s the Merck Manual???? Hahhh.Thanks for the chuckle.
D. Verret
Why do you keep coming back to start a fight? You can sure dish it out and name call, when I call you the same names that you call me and others you show your bad temper.
Dr Claude Boussignant just happens to be the head of CFIA red meat inspections. I am sure that you, Suzanne Moore and Dr. Marini know a whole lot more than he does.
Mother superior. thank you for the spelling correction. I like the Editor do that every so often so people read our posts.
Well apparently you are happy that the large companies are allowed to use 98% paperwork inspection and only 2% hands on. You laugh at me because I am concerned with and want safe food in our country to eat. You are really dumber that I thought. Everything with you is stop horse slaughter or not allow others that want to eat horse to eat it, and with false studies and wrong facts you TRY to convience people you are right. Go back and STUDY all of the clicks on my posts before you open your big mouth again. You have called me a DUMB FARMER, just where do you get the food that you put in your big mouth, is it is not a farmer?? Dumb, Dumb not one ounce of common sense!!
By the way when we get horse meat inspections I realize that none of this is done till the FAT LADY sings. I have song books for you and your close friends that post here.
Remember if you can not take it, do not try to hand it out. It is a toss up who is the queen of trolls, you or Suzanne. Both of you love calling others that name along with dumb, stupid and many more according to your posts. I hope everyone reads all your posts with name calling. Never facts, just more BS and name calling.
You have a very nice day. I know that this is a waste of space to talk to you. A thousand articles will not sink in your head. Oh well it is fun talking to the mentaly challanged like you. You may be one step away from a padded cell.
By the way D. Verret if this is the best you can do try to refrain from wasteing good space..
Thanks for the space. Joe
You are still not talking US Equines for meat for humans IN THIS country. You keep shifting topics. And you were given links to gov’t reports, EU that say your good old doc has some inconsistencies. Being ON the floor doesn’t make any difference if the equine has been given bute at any time in it’s life.
As to the rest, not worth commenting on and I am still here. You sound like you are in preschool and with the knowledge base regarding meat production and HCHS to prove it.
You seem to have a very serious comprehension and knowledge problem with regard to equines consumed as meat for humans, production regulations for all animals that are raised (whether for meat for humans) and medication regulatory guidelines no matter their end purposes, the role of FSIS and APHIS and ulimately that US Horsemeat is THE discussion here. In addition, there are export/import problems and standards with enfnorcement.
It doesn’t matter what antiHCHS of US equines say, post or rebutt. You want it and nothing will change your mind. You do realize US Equines are still slaughtered in the US? You just don’t get paid to do it as an owner or KB.
D. Verret
In response to the use of BUTE in an animals lifetime. If what you say were true that since a animal (horse) is given BUTE they can never be processed for food.
If what you keep saying was TRUE, my point is that the EU is allowing horses to be slaughtered for human consumption after a withholding period of 180 days. Please use a little common sense in your comments. You forget (on Purpose) to tell the whole story. OK, now even with bute used in a horse with the approved testing used by the CFIA in all plants in Canada there is no meat that has been found to contain illegal drugs shipped to the EU. The CFIA testing is so strict that any residue of reside from any illegal drug is found is tanked (DESTROYED) at the plant.
All of this just shows that bute used in a horse’s life does not condemn him from slaughter for life. Even a chip (passport) in livestock shows what drugs was used and when.
Ok let’s go back to the approved withdrawl time for BUTE by the EU. The answer to that is again 180 days, not life like you keep saying. I want to remind you again that the other country’s out side the EU does not require 180 days. I have posted here before how fast the bute is gone from the animal. These countrys only require that there is no residue in the meat and safe for human consumption when it is processed. Again I want to point you to the comment that the CFIA has NOT SHIPPED any contaminated meat with any, including BUTE… A little more research on your part will find this to be true.
I hate to be reduntant, but some people have to see the same point over and over, with a little common sense they MAY understand, maybe..
Thanks for the space JOE
Warning! Posting innacurate information and propaganda is not tolerated on this site and will result in banishment. We are going to repeat this for you one more time. The use of bute and many, many, medicines commonly given to horses is expressly prohibited by the federal Food and Drug Administration without exception for export as food animals. There is no wiggle room on this, Joe, there is no waiting period. If you continue to propagate the myth that bute laden U.S. horse meat can be legally shipped abroad you are suggesting people break the law and will get those ignorant enough to believe you in a lot of trouble. This will not be allowed. Stop.
The Editor
Joe….”Some” of us reading your opinions and facts(with links) understand that you are not condoning selling “Bute” laden or any other substance laden horse meat.As well we fully understand that CFIA is an organisation of extremely high standards(respected world wide) and that the testing they do is adequate and complete.
For any individual or recognized organisation to “ASSUME” that all horses(100% of population) have ingested “BUTE” or any other banned product is truly suspect of individual/group goals and in fact “Ludicrous” as Mr. Holland would say.
Best Regards
Anotherhorseman
Amen to Viki Tobin and the others for endlessly explaining even the rudimentary findings.
Dear Editor
I am sorry if some took my writing as my study or findings. I was only repeating what was said by Dr. Claude Bousinnant at the Summit of The Horse in Las Vegas this past January. Again I am sorry for any misunderstanding.
I again would like to remind all readers they need to remember that the Federal Meat Inspections Act (FMIA) passed on 1906, gave the USD’s Food Safety and Inspections System (FSIS) the authority and mandate to provide inspections and regulation of Cattle, Sheep, Goats, Swine, and Equine.
Now it seems to be very clear that horses are viewed as a food animal. They were included in the Federal Meat Inspections Act.
Just when did the world give America and the EWA , Animal Angels and others the authority to tell the world what they can eat as food. If that can be done we will also not be able to eat pork as the Muslim’s forbid swine to be ate, other countries worship cattle and forbid them to be eaten. Just when did America become the police of the world?
Again since Bute is manufactured for cattle and also forbiden like horses to be used in the food animals. What safety measures are currently used to assure that we have a safe food product in cattle?
Thanks again for the space and allowing me to set the record straight
Joe
Editor
I would like to make a correction to my comment where I said Bute is manufactured for cattle. It is not manufactured for cattle. I meant to say that someone still could give to cattle and that is why I feel that the same drug testing that is being requested for horses should apply to all livestock.
Thank you Joe
Joe ~ I am getting redundant??? Only because you don’t LISTEN to anything that’s posted that you disagree with. What else can any of us possibly do but be redundant?
However ~ now you have pissed me off BIG TIME with your callus comments about what we went through in Texas being between Beltex and Dallas Crown. I’m trying not to say what I’m thinking because I don’t want to be banned from this site, but I may not make it.
YOU don’t know anyone whose horse has been stolen? Well, I DO! Four of my personal friends’ horses disappeared forever, and my own horse came within a hair’s breadth. I SAW Dallas Crown. I SAW the trucks. Do NOT question what I have SEEN with my OWN EYES. You call our suffering crap again and I WILL say what I really think.
My friends and those of us who knew them were utterly devastated. I know you don’t give a d**n, you heartless jerk, but normal people DO.
This is the last time I respond to you because I’m too incensed by your attitude and your lies to even read them any more. Just one thing.
I can’t conceive what motivates you. You getting paid? There’s not enough money in the world that would get me to come here and continually make myself appear as dumb as a post, but that’s me. You think you’re going to prosper with horse slaughter? If that’s it, you ARE as dumb as a post, because the exporting of tainted meat for humans to eat CANNOT continue. It is an unconscionable flouting of the world’s food safety laws. If we don’t stop it ourselves, the EU will do it for us.
Even if you get the option to open plants on US soil again, who in the world do you expect to invest in them when the market is going to be dead as a doornail sooner than later? Ed Butcher in Montana found that out. You should contact him. Who do you expect will buy your crappy meat? The EU? The American people? Who?
Notice I didn’t ask if horse welfare was motivating you? I don’t need to ask that. If you cared one flip about horses you would not be doing what you do. Defending brutal slaughter, posting links to idiotic documentation and ridiculous web sites that have long since been identified as fraudulent. What’s more, you don’t care any more about people than you do about horses or you wouldn’t be fighting to continue to send them toxic horse meat.
You and your partners in this disgusting scheme cannot succeed in the long run because the people who are actually EATING this stuff won’t stand for it. Meanwhile, our country continues to disgrace herself in front of the world by listening to crooks like you.
Goodbye. May you get everything you deserve.
Suzanne Moore
There you go again!! Where did I EVER MENTION Dallas Crown??
You always try to add words, change the meaning to make yourself look good, too bad. Nice try. Keep to facts and only all the facts. Do not leave something out or try to add to change my post. Liar!!
Have a wonderful day, try to tell the truth JUST ONCE.
Thanks editor for the space JOE
This is hysterical…Suzanne Moore is a LIAR!?!?
How many folks you got posting here supporting your cause, Joe? I see two, sometimes three. How many times are different people posting against horse slaughter and trying to educate you? I count 7-12 (sometimes more). Do the math, Joe….you, skip, anotherhorseman are in the minority.
But we have been through this before, the majority of the American public, and yes, even most horseowners don’t support your position, the status quo or HCHS as humane euthanasia for equines or as meat for humans.
How come you aren’t defending your fearless leader over at the EWA expose (pronounced ex’po-zay) of Ms Wallis and her support of the crazy in OR posted by Horseback?
Suzanne Moore
This is response to your post Nov. 6 at 4:25 pm
First I am going to say that it seems YOU are the one who doesn’t LISTEN to anything that is posted that you disagree with..
Yes I am going to question you about what you saw with your own eyes. It seems that your eyes view everything different. We could have a bright sunny day and YOU would say it is the biggest storm we ever had, same day same place…
There you go again NAME CALLING and trying to belittle others. You only do this because you have no FACTS or PROOF…
Now lets see if you get thrown off for your reply!!
You try to have a nice day in your DOOM and GLOOM world.
Thanks for the space JOE
Joe, I just noticed you posted a million horses as a resource. Surely you are joking? As one example, take a look at Jeri’s study that was clearly an attempt to dispute John Holland’s studies.
John’s study used official unemployment rates measured against official state neglect/abuse reports.
Jeri’s study used official unemployment rates measured against on-line and newspaper articles. I’ve asked her twice if she called authorities to verify every article she used and to date, no response. Many of the articles are no longer available so you don’t even know what was said.
Unless there is an official report from the authorities confirming the information in the article, it is hearsay. We investigated many of the articles that started the day the doors were shuttered at the plants and virtually all were false. The first one that started the tsunami of articles was the Jeff McMurray article regarding the “abandoned” horses at a strip mine in KY. It turned out, the horses were owned by a sanctuary and had been grazing there for years. The governor even weighed in on that one. Another was a rancher that found 9 abandoned horses on his property and that one turned out to be his granddaughter thinking she saw one horse and that turned out to be false. In addition, it happened before the plants closed. So you see, the articles are worthless in her study because they were never verified with authorities.
We document our information and if you’d like to read more about the false “abandoned” horses, just google Deleting the Fiction. There are several reports available that document the authorities we spoke with and what they said.
Have you forgotten the debacle with Butcher in MT? He was grandstanding saying how many abandoned horses they had in MT. The Montana Grassroots Coalition called every county and without fail, the authorities said there were no more than in any other year.
So you see, the lies eventually surface and that’s what you are seeing now.
Vicki
Vicki you posted Nov 6 at 5:22
Here you go again with your feelings again and no documentation. I guess that you are saying that the GAO study and Jeri’ findings are meaningless as what John Holland would over ride any other study. Today is a bright sunny day with no wind. When you report the same day same place it is DOOM AND GLOOM with a tornado!!
Just when did John Holland become smarter than any one else? Oh I fogot you work for him, is that why he knows everything??
Thanks for the space Joe
Joe, you’re not reading what I post. Yes, Geri’s report is worthless and I gave you the reason why. She did not verify the information in the articles and without the police reports to verify their validity it is hearsay. John used state reports that were all confirmed by authorities. I never said John was smarter than anyone else. I stated that he used official numbers and Geri used hearsay. That statement is true.
As one example from the farce of a GAO report, the report stated that anti-slaughter activists started the fire at Cavel in IL in 2002. That is a flat out LIE. All they had to do was pull the police reports and they would have learned that the cause of the fire was never determined. If they dug a little deeper, they would have also learned that Cavel filed a $5M claim when the damages were estimated at $2M. They reported gossip. A government report that is supposed to be unbiased and based on facts, reported gossip. Much of the information in the report was based on ad-hoc conversations with a handful of vets that work for the meat industry and the GAO stated so. That is not a fact based report, that is more hearsay. They didn’t even know that the USDA reports slaughter numbers, we gave them that info. And when we asked for the underlying data to their statements, they refused to release the info and the lead on the report is missing in action.
It must have slipped your mind that the GAO also recommended banning horse slaughter as the first option listed.
Do you need more? We analyzed the entire report and I challenge you to dispute our findings. Not just snarky comments from you, facts that dispute what we have reported. We worked on this for almost two months. http://www.equinewelfarealliance.org/uploads/GAO_Response-final.pdf
The GAO themselves in their report said: “anecdotal evidence seems to indicate” that horse welfare had deteriorated, or whatever. That is one sorry statement for a report that claims to be “official.”
Suzanne makes a good point. The GAO report blamed the decrease in prices of low end horses on the higher costs experienced by kill buyers having to haul them further. That alone is ludicrous. Then they said it was likely that people were taking less care of their horses because they weren’t as valuable! That was their argument! No proof, no data, just wild conjecture.
So the GAO report is ludicrous on its face and by its own text. When did anyone go to an auction and get a horse for a lower price because their expenses were higher? They get a lower price because the other bidders can not afford to bid them up. And that of course points to the economy.
But the proof is in the denial of our FOIA. If they have auction data to support this nonsense, then why wouldn’t they provide it? They are the Government Accountability Office for goodness sake!
And BTW, the Mexicans don’t even test for bute at all. It was other drugs like clenbuterol that they were finding. And Canada (last I knew) used fat samples just like the USDA. Bute will never be found in fat because it has very few blood vessels. So those tests are either completely incompetent or intentionally rigged to provide false assurance. The only time the USDA tested properly for bute they found over 8% contamination.
Hello John
Would not common sense tell us that hauling horses further and border crossing costs, tells us that those additional costs taken from the market price makes them worth less. More costs subtracted from value leaves less money to pay for a horse. Right now good quality horses weighing over 1,000 lbs are only bringing 13 to 15 cents a pound in areas that are not close to the borders. Just start calling some of the sales barns and you will find this out.
I have a question for you. Just where do you think that your way of testing horse meat is better than the CFIA? Are you saying that the CFIA is knowingly testing horsemeat and saying it is safe to eat when it is not? This is absurd. I can not believe that you and Dr. Marini know more than the EU and CFIA .. There is no horsemeat inspected by the CFIA that has been found to contain residue of any kind that has been shipped. I believe the CFIA would change their inspections if it were a proven fact what they were doing was not sufficent to assure safe meat that will cause sickness or possible death.
When the USDA tested and found 8% of of the meat contained BUTE according to your findings I am sure it was tanked at the plant just like Canada CFIA does. Just because it was found does not mean it was shipped. Again would someone ship a horse if he knew that it would get rejected and he will not get paid? Rejected horses because of injuries is partly or maybe totally rejected, then why would a dealer not ship his horses properly?
The point in Mexican government is probably true. Beltex has an EU inspector in their plant to also assure the meat is safe. Let Mexico eat what they want, but let’s not let them ship any livestock product into America. We know that the USDA only inspects less than 5% of all meat products imported into America and only 2% of all other food products into America.
It would be nice if you would contact FSIS and tell them that they need to change the FAILED HASSP plan that they approved with the large plants. Maybe you already have because of the article posted yesterday on meeting place. Dr. Richard Raymond had a good article where he explained why he said he did. This is a 98% paperwork inspection and only 2% hands on. I am sure you are aware of the sites that have been posted. Check them out, I can repost just for you.
The next thing we know is that you will start telling a brain surgeon how to operate.
Thanks for the space Joe
Hey, Joe….”….not let any Mexico food product into America…”?????
Where you been for the last 10 years, your knowledge of NAFTA and what most meat in US groceries show regarding Country of Origin Labeleling (COOL/COO)?
Too late, the gates are open……..BOTH WAYS!
I forgot to mention that I do not work for John. We cofounded EWA and we work together, as equals, along with our two other board members, Laura Allen and Valerie James-Patton.
Thanks Skip, passions do get a little heated here and you can be assured we don’t thiink you are either a scripted troll, or an idiot. That said, the way we read it your post had nothing to do with horses, but with livestock, which horses ceased to be long ago in relation to being food animals. What concerned us, as referees here, was that you seemed to be saying producers were using drugs in food animals and then selling them for slaughter. The issue here, of course, is that drugs such as bute are prohibited in food animals under any circumstances and the FDA makes no exceptions and has no waiting period since bute remains in tissue forever, we are told. If that is true those who are doing this are helping animal agriculture, which Horseback supports without reservation, commit suicide. Please enlighten us further as to what you meant.
The Editor
Sorry Joe, you have been asked twice and have refused to answer.